Musings about the world around me, the world I create in my mind, and the world I am escaping to in a game.

Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.

But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.

And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.

Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?

It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.

Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?

Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.

I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.


Comments (Page 6)
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on Apr 13, 2009

eraser310
You guys should try just picking up the Bible and reading it. You all talk about reading all this stuff about how God can't be real, well I think that to be a good scientist you must hear and study all sides of the arguement. There are many things in the Bible that make sense. If you guys do a study you will realize that the bible has a lot of stuff in it that explains things that we thought could only be explained by technology. Consider that.

 

Well, thanks for assuming, but I went to 12 years of Catholic school.  I probably know more about the Bible than the vast majority of people who claim to believe in it.  And what does "explains things that we thought could only be explained by technology" even mean?  Could you give an example?

on Apr 13, 2009

Yes, from my knowledge of the Bible it does not explain the world as it is now as it does narrate a really quite intetresting history of how the world came to be, and teach people how to act without being a thrwat to society.

on Apr 13, 2009

hiddenranbir
There are going to be cases where we know certain statements are True, yet they would be unprovable. 

 

Worship the mathematicians! The language of maths is bajilion miles ahead of those biologists/chemists/physicists! It holds truths we have yet managed to translated into the messy natural spoken languages. (like the one I'm typing in now!)

 



Reduced 77%

Original 740 x 308

Darn I am a biologist.  Right in center.

on Apr 13, 2009

You aren't supposed to try and prove something doesn't exist. You assume something doesn't exist until evidence proves otherwise.

Maybe God already gave me something to prove otherwise?

on Apr 13, 2009

But that's not really what the major religions have said God is. It's what a very small subset of modern-day theological philosophers have said God is. For the vast majority of people, they are saying that God is an actual physical guy floating around, using magic to perform miracles, making it sunny when they want to have a picnic, and sending gay people to hell.

See, now we need a distinction between what people think religion says and what religion actually says.  Or perhaps, people using religion to further their own agendas (last part).

The idea of a God is an omnipotent, omniscient being.  He is all powerful, he is all knowing.  I mentioned in passing that the Catholic church already ran across an apparent contradiction of God (can't remember what it was or I'd have linked it, but I think it was a couple hundred years ago even) and decided that since He's God he can do whatever he damn well pleases, because he's all powerful, and this includes proof or disproof of him existing or not existing.

Aside from that, there are a lot of logical problems and vaguery around the term "all powerful", which you probably see as well. I guess even if we ignore that, if we define God as this thing that COULD physically effect something or have a quality, but chooses to eternally never actually physically do anything or have any qualities, then I'd say even thinking about that "God" thing is a waste of time. It's not able/willing to actually affect us in any way, and it's impossible for anyone to know anything at all about it, so there's very little point in spending an entire lifetime making up rules that you think it wants you to follow and structuring your government / church / holy war around these arbitrary rules.

I think we're pretty much in exact agreement on that.

on Apr 13, 2009

Sole Soul

The idea of a God is an omnipotent, omniscient being.  He is all powerful, he is all knowing.  I mentioned in passing that the Catholic church already ran across an apparent contradiction of God (can't remember what it was or I'd have linked it, but I think it was a couple hundred years ago even) and decided that since He's God he can do whatever he damn well pleases, because he's all powerful, and this includes proof or disproof of him existing or not existing.

Yeah, I agree that omniscient/omnipotent is usually part of all the major religions, I meant the part about "It's not so much that the sandwich has no qualities of existence-it's just that we aren't permitted to observe any of them."  Most people don't profess a belief that God is literally unprovable like that.  They think they see "evidence" of him all over the place.  At best, they would say he works mysteriously, not that he works in ways that are by definition unable to influence anything in the real world.  This latter interpretation is the one that's only popular in philosophy and not regular believers.

on Apr 14, 2009

Actually, you would need a god-maker-maker, and then you would need a god-maker-maker-maker, and (s)he would have to have a god-maker-maker-maker-maker and so on, until you eventually get the "infinity over infinity" problem which could be used to reason that there is never really an end to anything, just more and more layers.

Did you ever see a painting of a painter who paints a painting of a painter who paints a painting of a painter, who paints a painting of a painter who paints a painting of a painter, who paints a painting of a painter who ...

Same thing isn't it?

Still, while from that perspective it sounds plausible that reality is something similar to an onion, metaphorically speaking, it's highly unlikely.

 

The fact that biochemical and electrochemical reactions are all there is to our intelligence and being what we are along with some physics which make the universe what it is may seem impossible to grasp for some people, but for me personally it's much more plausible than some great maker.

But of course it's much more easier to say that one doesn't need to prove such a being exists because one simply believes in it's existence, and that it must have some greater plan when something terrible happens, rather than accepting that one is nothing special and there is no greater purpose to hisser own extistence.

 

on Apr 14, 2009

Truse but who maid the painter? Either he was born as a result of complex biochemical processes or somebody made him. Nothing can ever truly occur in a vacuum, which is why there would need to be infinite layers.

on Apr 14, 2009

Yeah. Either that or there is no painter at all, and the painting was created due to some complex process.

 

on Apr 14, 2009

First, just because you went to x number of years to catholic school or the individual that stated that they read the bible (which usually means that that person has only read either a few passages or a couple of chapters) DOES NOT mean that you are the end all knowledge in that area.

Just as if I STATED that I've worked in Quantum Mechanics for the University of Cambridge for 10 years DOES NOT mean that I am the end all knowledge in Quantum Mechanics!

Both of those agruments are committing a fallacy of appeal to flattery. 

By you insinuating that you know basically everything about the bible and that no one can tell you anything new under the sun MAYBE I should start claiming the science part and say since I doubt anyone individual here has worked at a prestigous university for that time period CAN NOT show me anything new under the sun as well.

Or MAYBE since you have an exhaustive knowledge of the bible I should come to your house and work for you since you claim to be a scientist with an open mind and all.....

on Apr 14, 2009

Now all that is asinine and me just being sardonical.  Yet it still holds true as a Scientist and a Mathematican that I still have an open mind to look into areas in order to find answers or to find more questions.  Both are acceptable.

Einstein once said "The man who claims to know everything and can not be taught anything new IS an idiot."

The bible also says something to that extent in Ecclessiasties.

on Apr 14, 2009

This is what he said: 

Well, thanks for assuming, but I went to 12 years of Catholic school.  I probably know more about the Bible than the vast majority of people who claim to believe in it.  And what does "explains things that we thought could only be explained by technology" even mean?  Could you give an example?

And you said:

By you insinuating that you know basically everything about the bible and that no one can tell you anything new under the sun MAYBE I should start claiming the science part and say since I doubt anyone individual here has worked at a prestigous university for that time period CAN NOT show me anything new under the sun as well.
Well, thanks for assuming, but I went to 12 years of Catholic school. I probably know more about the Bible than the vast majority of people who claim to believe in it. And what does "explains things that we thought could only be explained by technology" even mean? Could you give an example?

 wonder how you went from his statement to yours. Never did he say he knew everything. C'mon and be polite and lets try and understand what people are saying.

on Apr 14, 2009

I apologize for that syntex mistake. I can no longer edit it though.  I still present a valid point though.

on Apr 14, 2009

There is an insinuation there BUT I will concede and apologize.

on Apr 14, 2009

well im gonna add my 2 cents before this thread starts a war .

im a man of science AND faith. i believe in a god, maybe not anyone elses god but a god none the less. there will never be a time when every last thing is quantified so we cant prove if there is a god or not. the point of religion is to inspire and remind us to be the best ppl we can be, not to condem those who disagrre with it (though thats become the common practice). you shouldnt be nice cause your scared to burn in hell, you should be nice b/c you like making ppl smile or making others feel good.

last point. god doesnt have to be a man or a women or either for that matter, god could be simply a conciousness. but since we'll never know and man kind as a whole is bent on quantifying every last thing it doesnt matter. religion is what you make of it, how you interpret it, and how you act b/c of or inspite of it.

besides whats the fun in knowing everything anyway?

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