aargh....looks like the end of this thread....

It's the will of Landru...

Please do not use any form of word processor.

Just the Forum thread Reply text entry ONLY.

I blame the accursed Browser Wars. HTML was supposed to be a STANDARD. I'm no fundamentalist when it comes to cosmology, but network standards are another thing entirely.

Well, you can say whatever you want to say that Religion is bad. But I tell you, that religion influence most of our morale value, ethic, tradition, and law. It help to shape the world we know today, whatever it good or bad. The problem of most religion we have is that it was created by people who lived more than 1000 years ago. So, because it was created before 1000 AD, it's paradigm is the paradigm of that era. That's why, today religion tend to avoid some of their holy book contents. (like what we witness in old testament where the prophet Elia told the king of Israel to kill all their enemy, and not spare their life).

The problem of some religion men / women today is that they stuck to the paradigm of ancient era. Like, they don't eat pork, can have 4 wives,  believe that earth is flat, and the non existence of dinosaurs.

But to tell you, that religion is not God. The existence of God is different to the teaching of religion. Yes, Religion tell us about God, and make us to believe in God's existence. But, IF God is an entity, and not a concept, then you can't blame God for the fault of religion believers in the world. I think, because even if all the people in the world become Atheist, God is still exist. So, I believe that religion is a science, or teaching, not the God itself.

The problem is... Atheist people believe that God is a concept. So if the Religion people believe that God is an entity and not a concept, why should defend the existence of God? You are trapped in a thinking that God is a concept, and not an entity.

People who copy texts to explain themselves and their religion are the most dangerous of sorts to encounter because they can't explain themselves with their own words. Their slaves to something they cant question.

But it's such a nice story. It's got an angel in it, and he hates commies too!

God did not create Man, Man created God.

It is easy to look around and ask 'where did all this come from?', and because you don't have an answer, you say some all powerful being created it. God is a convenience to explain away all the things you do not understand.

Man is such an arrogant species he cannot admit he doesn't know things.

So, what about the creation of the universe? The most enlightened and intelligent thing to do is to admit you don't know. We as a species do not yet possess the knowledge or intelligence to be able to understand the simplest concepts about the origin of the universe.

If we do not accept this 'revelation', we will remain forever in the dark ages.

Nice to see things looking normal again. 

There is no contradiction. 

I said experimental science for a reason. 

God as He is in Himself is pure Spirit, immaterial, if you will, and experimental science deals with material things, Right? Experimental science abstracts from the spiritual field altogether is what I meant.  

Science is concerned with man's understanding of matter and the behavior of matter. God exists beyond the scope of scientific experimentation, however.....

It’s true. 

Are you really asking, "Who made God?"

We must begin to answer by separating the Creator from the created creature. If God were made, then He would be a contingent, a dependent creature. He would be a composite being, made up of parts subject to decomposition, death and therefore not a pure Spirit as is God.

God told us Hmself that He is the "I AM WHO AM". In other words, God has no past or future, He is Eternal Being and therfore without a beginning or an end.

I've just discussed that God's existence can be proved in many ways, but the simplest is known as the argument from design. Not only must a watch come from a watchmaker, but every part of it must have had a designer who knew how to make it. The cosmos  and all that's in it, including life, is full of design, infinitely more wonderful than the watch. That is undeniable.

Obviously, then, the cosmos and all that's in it, including life must have had a designer with tremendous intelligence. Matter itself is designed. Not only the cosmos but the matter of which the cosmos is made must have had a Designer, Another word for designer of matter, is Creator God. 

Catholics look at God to be the First Cause. The first is first, and we cannot logically and rationally ask, if the first is first, who made the first?

If there were such an impossible thing as the casue of the First Cause, it would not be the First Cause. Asking Who made God is as far fetched as asking who made water wet or what makes a circle round, how high is up.

God is a Self-Existent, Spiritual Being, the "I AM WHO AM," the Causeless Cause, the Maker of the made.

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Here's another story. 

The whole universe can be compared to a giant Erector set in which the atoms are various parts. They can be fitted together to make all the countless substances useful to man. Matter didn't exist forever; it was created and the Creator is called God.

The story is told of a famous astronomer who was being visited by an evolutionist scientist friend who claimed to be an atheist. The latter was admiring the working model of the solar-system that stood upon a table; by turning the handle the planets could be made to revolve in their respective orbits around the sun.

"Very ingenious indeed," he remarked. "Who made it?" 

"Oh, nobody particular."

"Tell me, I want to know--who made it?"

"Nobody made it...it just happened--it made itself."

The scientist realized he was being taught a lesson and became annoyed.

"You're trying to be funny," he said.

"How silly you are" exclaimed the astronomer. "you can't believe that this little model made itself, and yet, you believe that the real sun, and moon and earth, planets, and stars, and everything else, in the vast universe just came into existence without any Maker!" 

http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1191017

Lula, better hit the science books again, you seem to be falling behind. While there, you might want to review “evolution” too.You may not know what electricity or energy is (hahaha) but that is only because it isn’t described in minute detail in your book of books like the rest of our world history hehehe, is all. You like to use the term “fully understood” as if it means anything … it doesn’t in the context you are trying to use it in. Maybe you could explain why there are over a thousand different sects of Christianity … is that a result of the bible being “fully understood”, I think not. “We can agree to disagree on whether or not Theology is a branch of science.” No we can’t, sorry. Theology has nothing at all to do with science (yikes, enemies) and it doesn’t matter one iota how you feel about it, hahaha. “Irreducible complexity” is a term used by “Intelligent Design” aficionados who are trying to revive “Creationism” after the Christians bungled that one too much to salvage. Lula, if you are trying to prove something is true … all you have to do is tell the truth. Continued use of words like “implies” (suggests), “by deduction” (assumption), “a clue” (hint) and “tiny size” (small) are not very useful to your cause. Obviously the school board agrees with me too … so I am not the problem. Name just one scientific conclusion that even suggests that any of your mystical nonsense is real … just ONE?

DrJBHL … I liked that definition! “How to create a whole bunch of cool stuff out of nothing” without the use of magic or mysticism … all in one sentence, hahaha. I had to cross out a couple of words though, sorry.

Atheism defined: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing  and the nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense, hahaha

Thanks for your advice however, no need...

I think Dr. JBHL did a good job.

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I admit I (we) don't know what electricity or energy is, period.....but, apparently you think you (we) do! So, here's your chance...What exactly is electricity and energy?

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First, there is but one Christianity.

There was/is but one Church and one holy religion (Christianity) up until 1517 when the Protestant religion and sects were established. Those thousands of Protestant sects were established not because they "fully understood" the Holy Bible, but rather because they misunderstood the true meaning of the Holy Bible.

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I can see there's no arguing with you lulapilgrim. You believe in a god, you want to see god in everything, and surprise surprise, you do. Even while trying to convince us you're right, you just show how wrong you are. Like your definition of theology:

Like you say, it presupposes christian faith. Your whole argument is circular; you start with belief in god, then you integrate science with that belief, and then use that 'science' to prove what you started with; there is a god.

And you don't only need to take a lesson in science, history isn't your strong suit either. There where lots of christian sects, at least until the first council of Nicaea, where they decided on what the 'official' bible should be, and made sure it fit with the belief that Christ was the son of god. Something that was not believed by all christians at the time.

Also, you might want to take a look at Gnosticism, a large branch of christianity that survived untill somewhere in the middle ages. Your beloved catholic church brutally suppressed this branch, killing thousands.