Science and God (One and the same?)

Published on April 11, 2009 By Gh0st_Note- In Everything Else

Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.

But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.

And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.

Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?

It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.

Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?

Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.

I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.

Comments (Page 22)

316

Phalnax811

on May 05, 2009

I take it she was a Christian? Jewish girls often wouldn't start a relationship with a non-Jew (although they would with a Jewish atheist), but they are not likely to try to convert people.

Yes Melkite Christian Catholic.

317

Star Adder

on May 05, 2009

Leauki

reply 9

Protestants don't have priests. You should have talked with her too.

I don't believe the rest of the story either.

Oh, I did. Though her work was seldomly a topic when we talked. Since priest is the english translation for the german word "Priester" and/or "Pfarrer" she WAS or IS for that matter a "priest". Period.

And I don't give a flying fart about whether you believe the story or not. Some members of the Protestant Church in Germany are very liberal.

318

Leauki

on May 05, 2009

A "Pfarrer" is a minister. "Priester" is something else (and does translate as "priest").

Protestants don't have priests. Period.

And I don't give a flying fart about whether you believe the story or not. Some members of the Protestant Church in Germany are very liberal.

You wouldn't tell a story like that unless you were hoping that readers would believe it.

319

mommie4life

on May 05, 2009

Protestants don't have priests. Period.

Protestant churches come with a varitey of beliefs. Some Protestant churches call their leaders priests, others call them ministers, etc. There are a wide range of churches that fall into the Protestant category.

Protestantism is a movement within Christianity that originated in the sixteenth-century Protestant Reformation. It is considered to be one of the four principal traditions within Christianity, together with Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism and Orthodoxy.

Protestantism is associated with the belief that the Bible (rather than church tradition or ecclesiastical interpretations of the Bible)^[1] is the final source of authority for all believers, by the grace of God.

Protestantism has both conservative and liberal theological strands within it. Its style of public worship tends to be simpler and less elaborate than that of Roman Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox Christians, sometimes radically so, though there are exceptions to this tendency.

Examples of denominations within Protestantism include the Lutheran, Methodist, and Baptist churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant

Just because he dated someone who was the leader of a Protestant church doesn't mean that they can't be called a priest nor would it necessarily mean that the rest of his story was wrong even if he got her title wrong.

*EDIT*

A priest or priestess is a person having the authority or power to administer religious rites; in particular, rites of sacrifice to, and propitiation of, a deity or deities. Their office or position is the priesthood, a term which may also apply to such persons collectively.

Priests and priestesses have been known since the earliest of times and in the simplest societies. They exist in all or some branches of Judaism, Christianity, Shintoism, Hinduism, and many other religions, as well, and are generally regarded as having good contact with the deities of the religion to which they subscribe, often interpreting the meaning of events, performing the rituals of the religion, and to whom other believers often will turn for advice on spiritual matters.

In many religions, being a priest or priestess is a full-time job, ruling out any other career. In other cases it is a part-time role. For example in the early history of Iceland the chieftains were entitled goði, a word meaning "priest". But as seen in the saga of Hrafnkell Freysgoði, being a priest consisted merely of offering periodic sacrifices to the Norse gods and goddesses. it was not a full time job, nor did it involve ordination.

In some religions, being a priest is by human election or human choice. In others the priesthood is inherited in familial lines.

Women officiating in modern Paganism, Neopagan religions such as Wicca, and various Polytheistic Reconstructionism faiths are referred to as priestesses; however, in contemporary Christian churches that ordain women, such as those of the Anglican Communion or the Christian Community, ordained women are called priests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest

Also so info on whether or not a woman can be a priest and not be called a priestess.

320

lulapilgrim

on May 05, 2009

Lula posts

With the ending of the existence of an Aaronic priesthood

Leauki posts: #251
Again, there is no such ending.

You are free to believe whatever you want, but none of your beliefs have anything to do with Judaism. You don't get to define our beliefs; we do.

All I did was state a fact. Now I'll back it up even further.

For it to be as you say, there would have to be proof of Aaronic lineage. It would be possible if there were distinctive tribes in existance such as the tribes of Judah and Levi and houses therein of David and Aaron as existed in pre-Christian Isrealite times. Without proof of lineage no Jew can claim that he belongs to any one of these tribes or distinctive houses.

With the destruction of the Temple and the Altar in 70AD, the genealogical records were destroyed. The end of the Temple marked the end of the Aaronic priesthood and therefore the end of Old Testament Judaism.

The first requirement of the claimant of the office of High Priest who alone offered the sacrifices, was proof of Aaronic lineage. This was most strictly demanded in the days of Isreal's glory. Read Numbers 16:40; it will confirm this and so does the quote from Josephus, a Jewish historian..."It is the custom of our country, that no one should take the high priesthood of God, but he who is of the blood of Aaron."

You say there is no such ending of the existance of the Aaronic priesthood!!! How can an Aaronic priesthood be when no known person in the world can furnish authoritative proof that he is a descandant of Aaron the first High Priest as was required in the days when Judaism was Old Testament Judaism?

The Talmud says that "the glory of the Jews decreased with the destruction of genealogical records of priestly descent." Were it not for refusal as well as inability to see in Jesus the predicted Messias, you, the Talmud Rabbi and all the rest, would realize the glory of the Jews had ended, the mission fulfilled. Greater glory came to Isreal and through Isreal in the Person of Christ who was born, in time, place and manner that the prophets of Isreal foretold. He instituted a new, a more perfect priesthood, a priesthood without geneology, "according to the order of Melchisedech" Psalm 109. He, the Messias, instituted a new Sacrifice of an unbloody nature, the "clean oblation" predicted by Malachais through which homage is paid to ALmighty God in the Holy Mass on altars all over the world, "from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof" Malachi 1:10-11 instead of the Jewish offerings to God from a single altar from the Temple of Jerusalem.

Check out the Scripture, read Josephus, "Antiquities of the Jews" and take actual Jewish history and the dispersion in consideration. Give these an unbaised consideration and with the grace of God with which to realize that the end of Old Testament Judaism was God's providence in salvation history. It marked the beginning of the New Testament recorded Catholic Christianity which is biblical Judaism full-blossomed.

Leauki, you are big on evolution...think of biblical Judaism as evolved over time into Catholicism!

321

lulapilgrim

on May 05, 2009

LEAUKI POSTS:

I am referring to Zoroastrianism and any number of revealed religions.

LULA POSTS: I've explained time and again how biblical Judaism and Christianity was revealed by God.

Would you please explain how Zoroastrianism is revealed by God?

They have a prophet and holy scriptures. Plus the Bible says that king Cyrus, a Zoroastrian, was a righteous king anointed by G-d.

Zoroastrianism is mentioned as a religion of the true G-d in the (Hebrew) Bible. Christianity is not. That's good enough for me.

Well, I asked....and you replied....Zorastrianism may be good enough for you as a revealed religion by God, but it's rings up a "No Sale" for me. Zoroastrianism is more of a natural religion, one of many amongst Indo-European peoples; not a supernatural religion. You call him a prophet. I've seen his life evaluated as a kind of primitive sorcerer or shaman, intoxicating himself on hemp fumes. I'd agree though he was a lofty moralist, or social reformer. Holy Scripture...no dice...his hymns were later modified by Zoroastrian tradition. Lastly, from one of my history books..."in Persian communities, Zoroastrianism became more extreme in its dualism, with Zoroastrianism magi insisting that everything material was evil...Among Greeks and non-Greeks alike, an offshoot of Zoroastrianism, known as Mithriasm gained ever more popularity...fourth century BC....the cult gained its name from Mithras, at first a minor deity in Zoroastrianism".

Only biblical Judaism and Catholic Christianity are revealed religions by God. Only they were established by Divine authority. Again, supernatural religion is concerned with duties to God and it is for God to dictate the terms and conditions, not us.

322

lulapilgrim

on May 06, 2009

I've explained the Old Covenant Jewish religion (what I call Biblical Judaism) accurately.

LEAUKI POSTS: 274

No, you haven't. In fact it is obvious that you know very little about it.

It was on Mt. Sinai through Moses and Aaron, that Almighty God instituted His worship and a Jewish priesthood. Aaron the first priest of the OLd Law, and each one of the high priests on the Sinaitical law in succession after him, wore a breastplate of 12 precious stones each inscribed with the name of one of the 12 tribes of the nation for whom he offered sacrifice.

Every Jewish priest must belong to the tribe of Levi of the House of Aaron. that's why the house of Levi scrupously guarded its genealogies, that the line of its descent of its priests might be kept pure. Same thing with the house of David from whom the Messias was to come and might be certainly known. The Jewish Encyclopedia has quite a bit about the purity of the descent of the priests including the woman he desired to marry as far back as her great great grandparents.

But now the genealogical records of the house of Levi are no more...it's certain that there is no more a priesthood among Jews which can rightly claim to be of God.

And whoever believes that the Judaism before Jesus was somehow totally different from any of today's variants of Judaism ignores the tribal history of Judaism, the schism between Samaria and Judaea, and thousands of years of history.

Oh really?

The Judaism before Jesus was radically different from 70AD onward through today's modern Judaism. Here's a list how.

Biblical Judaism up until 70AD was a revealed religion, a God ordained faith, worship and way of life. Modern Judaism is man-made; has no Temple worship and does not have to be faithful to God and His laws to be considered a Jew.

Biblical Judaism is the religion of the descendants of Isreal. The children of Isreal (later called Jews) were chosen by God to be the keepers, teachers and interpreters of His law. This law included a priesthood selected from the tribe of Levi and the selection of Judah as the tribe from which the promised Messias would come to fulfill the Law. Modern Judaism doesn't fit this as they are no longer the keepers, teachers and interpreters of His law..as they have no priesthood from the tribe of Levi, no Temple, etc. as I have been saying all along.

Biblical Judaism as an organic religion dates from Moses, the lawgiver, through whom God instituted the religious and civil requirements of the Isrealites. An Isrealite is a person that worship God according to the Law of Moses and stems from Jacob the son of Isaac whose name was changed to Isreal Ex. 3:15. The name Isreal was given at a later date to the ten northern tribes that have disappeared 1Kings 2:28-30. ...and modern Judaism cannot physically keep the religious and civil requirements of the Isrealites. (Not to be confused with the modern nation of Isreal.)

Biblical Judaism, pure and unadulterated, is set forth in the Torah and the other inspired prophetical writings in the OLd Testament. Modern Judaism cannot physically keep the Torah.

Biblical Judaism is a sacerdotal (priestly) religion. Lev. 28. Modern Judaism has no priesthood for there is no distinctive tribe of Levi nor any genealogical evidence of the house of Aaron.

BIblical Judaism's worship centers in public sacrifices, homage paid to Almighty God through priests, in sin, guilt (trespass), peace, thank and other offereings. Before the Law was given to Isreal by God, through Moses, Adam, and his sons, Abraham and his posterity, Job and Melchidedec, offered sacrifices, as everyone was priest and minister of his own sacrifices, But with Moses came the delegation of that function and power, by Divine command, to Aaron, brother of Moses, and his family descendants, the Aaronic priesthood. Modern Judaism has no temple, no priesthood, no sacrifices, no altar, etc.

Biblical Judaism was a prophetic religion. It's prophets centered in the coming of the Messias (the Christ) from the tribe of Judah, the house of David, of a Virgin, in the village of Bethlehem. Modern Judaism has no prophets as the last Jewish prophet was Malachais.

Biblical Judaism sacrifices of Isreal were commanded to be offered in a central place, which was in the Ohel Moeb (portable sanctuary) while in the wilderness, and later in the Temple in Jerusalem. Modern Judaism has no Temple as it was destroyed in 70AD and Jerusalem was burned to the ground.

Biblical Judaism first principle is belief in a transcendant, immanent, eternal God Whose oneness is stressed in its universal expression of faith, "Hear O Isreal, the Lord thy God, the Lord is One". This prayer might be the only point of unity of Biblical Judaism with modern Judaism.

So, here are some basic, indisputable explanations of what Biblical Judaism is from the viewpoint of Mosaic teachings as recorded in the OLd Testament. Becasue the Aaronic priesthood, the Mosaic sacrifices, and the Temple came to an end in 70AD biblical Judaism differs greatly and cannot be in accord with modern Judaism. Biblical Judaism ended over 20 centuries ago with the fulfillment of the prophecies in the Birth, Life, Works, Death and Resurrestion of the promised Messias. Christianity became the reality, the completion, the fulfillment of all the holy things biblical Judaism foreshadowed.

Leauki, with consideration to the other readers, if you wish to debate this further, perhaps we should cut and paste this to another blog?

323

lulapilgrim

on May 06, 2009

Leauki posts:

Protestants don't have priests. Period.

This is something in which we AGREE.

mommie4life posts #319

Protestant churches come with a varitey of beliefs.

This is something in which we agree...actually each Protestant church has its own belief...that's why there are so many of them...there is no unity of faith as is called for in Eph. 4:5-6 ....there is no one faith, one baptism, etc.

About the only "belief" they are united upon is protest against the Catholic Church.

Some Protestant churches call their leaders priests,

Interesting, I didn't know that. Which ones?

I thought the Protestant Reformation abolished the priestly office and doesn't acknowledge the Sacrament of Holy Orders. It repudiates anything of sacerdotalism or of a priesthood distinct by its very nature from the condition of the laity.

A Catholic priest receives the very priesthood of Christ in the order of Melchidechech indelibly stamped on his soul by the Sacrament of Holy Orders. He is forever consecrated and raised to a sacred dignity above all other levels.

324

lulapilgrim

on May 06, 2009

"Science is man trying to figure out how God does it"~ ParaTed2k's (Not So) Famous Sayings. ;~)

Good one ParaTed2K!

325

Leauki

on May 06, 2009

All I did was state a fact. Now I'll back it up even further.

You are not stating facts, you are stating opinion; and badly researched opinion too.

Y-chromosomal Aaron is the name given to the hypothesised most recent common ancestor of many of the patrilineal Jewish priestly caste known as Kohanim (singular "Kohen", "Cohen", or Kohane). In the Hebrew Bible this ancestor is identified as Aaron, the brother of Moses. Research published in 1997 and thereafter has indicated that some contemporary Jewish Kohanim share Y-chromosomal Haplogroup J1 (Y-DNA) with a set of genetic markers, known as the Cohen Modal Haplotype, which may well derive from a single common ancestor. Later, in 2007, the same team announced that they found another common set of genetic marker related to present-day traditional Kohanim families in Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA).

...

The Cohen hypothesis was first tested by Prof. Karl Skorecki and collaborators from Haifa, Israel, in 1997. In their study, "Y chromosomes of Jewish priests," published in the journal Nature, they found that the Kohanim appeared to share a different probability distribution compared to the rest of the Jewish population for the two Y-chromosome markers they tested (YAP and DYS 19). They also found that the probabilities appeared to be shared by both Sephardi and Ashkenazi Cohens, pointing to a common Cohen population origin before the Jewish diaspora under the Roman empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

I am assuming that you want to argue that this is the purest of coincidences?

326

Leauki

on May 06, 2009

Well, I asked....and you replied....Zorastrianism may be good enough for you as a revealed religion by God, but it's rings up a "No Sale" for me.

I know. You and I have different attitudes towards the Holy Bible.

You are so eager to be the sole arbitrator of truth that you happily reject what the Bible says if it contradicts your opinion.

Zoroastrianism IS a revealed religion.

Thus says Yahweh to his anointed, to Cyrus, whom he has taken by his right hand to subdue nations before him and strip the loins of kings, to force gateways before him that their gates be closed no more: I will go before you levelling the heights. I will shatter the bronze gateways, smash the iron bars. I will give you the hidden treasures, the secret hoards, that you may know that I am Yahweh. (Isaiah 45:1-3)

And the Bible doesn't even have to say it for it to be true. Zoroastrianism is a revealed religion by the virtue of being revealed, not by the virtue of being mentioned in the Bible. But the fact that the Zoroastrian King is specifically mentioned in the Bible as G-d's servant and agent really gives it away.

327

Leauki

on May 06, 2009

Leauki, with consideration to the other readers, if you wish to debate this further, perhaps we should cut and paste this to another blog?

Yes.

http://citizenleauki.joeuser.com/article/350814/Judaism_before_and_after_Jesus

328

CocaColaAddict

on May 06, 2009

I am not relegious but i AM spiritual
yet i can easly explain my spiritual elements in what i beliave is a sientific fact

Everything in the univarse is made of energy
the base of every element is the univarse is energy, even us as humans

so here how it works:
1. we made of energy which means we can be effected by outer source of energy
some call it Karma, when we are serounded by a balanced source of energy we feal stable and secure
yet when we come close to an unbalced source of energy, we feel anxious
2. I beliave people can feel this energy, yet some of them apply it to the feeling of a beeing
like there is someone invisible near us, religious people say its God or Angels who follow them
and protect them and so on.
3. By nature people are social beings, when we find ourself alone we naturally seek
for company, if we cant find it, after awhile our senses sharpens and we start to feel things
usually we never could of feel, a good excample is when someone walking alone in the middle of the night
and got this feeling like hes been watched or followed, while the truth is that he just sance the energy all around him.

Now about how people explain things they cant undarstand..
Indeed long time ago before the sience revolution, many applyed religious answares
to things they cant explain, but today its somewhat different, people close thair eyes to facts
just because they prefare to think that its god, people see things that arent real because they
want to see them, such as the face the jesus on trees, clouds, and so on...
The fact that no one really knows how jesus looked like, the religous people dont care abou it at all!
someone told them that jesus is a cocasian guy with ling hair and beard, so they all think its the truth
while facts are that jesus was born in the middle east to a middle eastern jewish fammily
which means that he probbly was not cocasion but more like middle eastern with brown skin and black hair and dark eyes.
yet religious people prefare to ignore those facts.

I think its due the fact that people are in so much need to feel spacial and unique that they will fight
anyone who will say otherwise.
even if today i will be a part of an experiment where doctors will stop my hear and brain activity
for 15 minuts and then bring me back to life, and then they will ask me what did i see
and ofcourse record it all on video, it wont change anything, even if i will say that i saw heaven
some will come up with explanations like it all was illusion due to chemicals in my brain
if i will say it didnt saw anything, religous people will just turn thair back to me and this video

on May 06, 2009

on May 06, 2009

When I was a Priest, I was in on a lot of protests... does that count? :~D

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I've explained the Old Covenant Jewish religion (what I call Biblical Judaism) accurately.LEAUKI POSTS: 274

I've explained the Old Covenant Jewish religion (what I call Biblical Judaism) accurately.

LEAUKI POSTS: 274