It's never a waste of time to discuss issues that affect society. People do not learn how to solve problems, or understand and tolerate others if they put up a fence and refuse to discuss things.

That is exactly my point. The history of the intelligent design concept and movement shows exactly what the intent of it is. The "father" of intelligent design is a born again christian with a BS in English Literature and no formal education in biology. Go figure.

Current science already explains evolution without the need for divine intervention.

It depends how you view the issue. If I were to believe in God independent from religion it would most likely be because science proved it, That is why I stated earlier I don't believe for the same reason reason I don't believe in the existence of unicorns. As far as religion goes I believe the concept of God is used so men can make others conform to a certain set of "rules" that are conceived by men who do not want that authority questioned so they assign the credit to "God". It wasn't always that way however it looks to me like many religions simply took older traditions and changed them to suit their own needs. History tells a great story about the origin of religious concepts and how they have been used and abused throughout the centuries.

Seems fair enough. Even the Big Bang has been modified by the enthusiasts to the possibility of a "primordial soup" rather than nothing.

 

I want to see you sneak that one past the believers ... it sure didn't work for our origin, hahaha. The science around the 'big bang' is just out of my league is all? Last I looked, they were still trying to prove they could produce ‘matter’ from ‘nothing’, but I thought that avenue to be counter intuitive. I am sure this would be a hard sale to just about everyone … I need to think it over and poke a few buttons.

"The Big Bang Theory" is nothing more than a clever and funny TV show....

stevendedalus: From what I have found out, there seems to be some pristine primordial gas clouds observed and is assumed to have been produced in the first couple of minutes after the big bang … not the cause of it. But I do have an alternative theory that completely explains the big bang…

It's called "M-theory"...and plausible is relative

String theory and multiple universes are just over my head … let the scientists have this out. M-theory is too complex (for me) and I don’t have the math skills to even try. A good name for my theory though would be “The Yoyo Theory”.

Big Bang and Creationist belief are not necessarily mutually exclusive.   Maybe you've seen people wearing the T-shirts:  "I believe in the Big Bang.  God spoke and BANG, there it was."   If the universe truly came to be that way and the timeline was off--even way off--we wouldn't discount the theory altogether.  Let's take the extreme:   say the universe exploded and came to be in 7 days' time--not billions and billions of years.  There would still have been a Big Bang--it's just the timeline was off.  But then we would have to explain the empirical data already out there supporting the Big Bang theory, and on the timeline presently theorized.   Which I don't think would be too hard, since the present Big Bang theory requires the universe to be composed of 83% dark matter (something we have no empirical support for) in order for the math to add up.

Christian evolutionist thought (and yes, there are plenty of Christians who also believe in evolutionism) points out that the Bible uses dates in symbolic terms on more than a few occasions.  I don't necessarily subscribe to this myself, and personally I think some liberal interpretations take dates too non-literally at times.  However, on the 7-day Creation, I can very much see that to be "symbolic".  Did the earth rotate around its axis 7 times?   Did it revolve around the sun billions of times?   Neither--when the universe was still forming, there was no earth or sun yet.  How could there be days?  And the Bible does support that, to the eternal God, billions of years are as one day to Him.  So while I can see that point, I am concerned that we use that viewpoint to dilute the Bible's meaning--I mean, you can just render all dates meaningless that way.   e.g. "Jesus rose again in 3 days".   But hey, what are 3 days to God?  He could have rose again 3000 years later, maybe the days are just symbolic of millennia.  I don't buy that.

 

I'm open to that possibility that god created evolution and the earth, that he/she set the whole thing spinning so to speak. But there's just no evidence for it.

I am willing to stipulate to this idea, but with one additional caveat ... Once the creation was done ... there was no interactions with the universe once things were set in motion and the laws of physics were established and have not since changed.

That's deism.   Some of America's founding fathers were deist.   It's the belief that God created the universe then just stepped away.   I'm not deist; in fact, I think most Christians regard deists as non-Christians to an extent (similar to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses...or how Protestants/Catholics view each other).   However, that does not mean that God absolutely micromanages every aspect of everything that occurs.  He steps away, and lets the laws of physics do their thing--and He steps away and lets mankind make decisions, do their thing.   BUT--He reserves the right to step in at any time.   He's God; He's allowed to do that.  That's what we would call a "miracle", typically.  

However--and I'm speaking MHO at this point--even that arguably is not breaking the laws of physics.  God IS the Law.  How can a king break the law?  If He steps in and does something, then that by definition makes "legal" ("legal" in quotes, because "legal" and the laws of physics...that doesn't make much sense...).  If you look at a lot of the anecdotal miracles out there, it doesn't seem many/any laws of physics are being broken, i.e. you don't see people magically levitating or going to space.   It's more like the Apostles needing 2 denarii to pay their taxes, they go fishing, and they find 2 denarii in the fish.  Or someone needing $543 for their rent and somehow, someone miraculously writes them a check for $543, knowing nothing about their plight.  Or someone looks at their arm once, and they have leprosy..and then they look away...then they look at their arm again, and suddenly it's healed.   It's like it's a miracle, AND...you can't think of any laws of physics that were particularly broken.   You can be suddenly healed of leprosy, but gravity is still 32.2/ft/second^2. 

You might get leeway with this if you had said ID instead of Creationism. But no matter, the courts have already ruled that ID is just Creationism repackaged and as everyone knows, that is about God mucking about with everything. Regardless of our personal beliefs, the Bible does not in any way support a timely creation that approaches our physical reality ... as we know and can prove. And if you take "The Creation" out of the Bible ... how can they even argue their various religions which were foolish enough to try and get away with it in the first place. You cannot separate “Genesis” from the Bible any more than you can separate Christians from it. Do you honestly believe this God created the days of the week for us … or that He had any use for them? Time to humanity means one thing (Y_M_W_D_H_M_S) and any other guesswork is just that.Most times are during the life of living men (supposedly) and three days is three days … and what in the world (or not) is a God day?tetleytea; Thanks, I didn't know that? I had seen the term and was meaning to look ... thanks. All I said was that it was an Idea I could sink my teeth into ... if it weren't for the current state of the religions. You got this all figured out or should I say stepping out, hahaha. Most people call personal miracles … what they are, an overactive imagination with visions of grandeur. If I were prone to fantasy, I would like to think my chosen one would be a little more concerned with say the genocide in Rwanda and not so much on your friends your friends rent money.No laws were broken because delusions are nothing but mind benders ... no laws required, hahaha. Just seems natural for you to think myth-logically then, huh, instead of actually looking for something yourself with a little science-logically? The only people who see only one explanation just aren’t looking for more … but they are always there nonetheless.

It's amazing that how people who have not had an experience and can't imagine it are experts on what it is.