Musings about the world around me, the world I create in my mind, and the world I am escaping to in a game.

Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.

But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.

And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.

Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?

It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.

Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?

Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.

I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.


Comments (Page 52)
77 PagesFirst 50 51 52 53 54  Last
on Dec 28, 2011

Atheism runs the gamut.  In a pure sense, it is simply a worldview detached from emotion and bias and defined by firm parameters--rejecting things that don't meet certain criteria.

In real life however...find me someone who is "emotionally detached and unbiased".  No such creature.

For most, atheism is genuinely a dogma if not a religion.  By that I mean when presented with something not conforming to it's core tenets--but also not explicable by them--atheistic philosophy most often simply chooses to ignore it.  Nothing more than, "I deny your reality and replace it with my own!".  This isn't exactly the sparkling intellectual tower most atheists I know feel they live in but for them they will take the illusion of that perfection over having to grapple with things they don't know how to quantify.

Heck--I'm from Missouri..."Show me". 

Seen Bigfoot?  Talk to me about why I should believe you--I'll listen.  Abducted by aliens? Run it by me and I'll wait before I decide your crazy.  Think the moon landing never happened? Sorry, heard that one already but give it a try if you have something new and I'll give you a minute.

I'm not asking you (or anyone) to "magically believe in God".  I'm suggesting before you dismiss every experience by every person who does that you might listen to what someone has to say (and it doesn't need to be me) before declaring every one of them and all of their claims as bollix.

As to "proving my experience scientifically?"--give me a time machine and let me bring you along and then--sure--no problem.  The kind of "proof" most atheists want though is about equal to "how much" land Palestine wants to be at peace with Israel.  you might as well ask me to finish up and prove out all of M-theory while we're at it.  It certainly wouldn't be any more difficult.

on Dec 28, 2011

Atheism is a word that seems to convey much more information to believers that to the actual people they want to talk about. From a purely analytical (theological) standpoint ... anything that doesn't comply with the traditions of those with whom you speak is in some way, shape or form ... atheistic ... by definition. This of course has nothing to do with me personally if for no other reason than it is too general and is all encompassing such as to have no real meaning. It is of course a non-squinter; if religion had not been invented by man ... this conversation would not be taking place. And since this atheist nonsense only came to be after religious folk interrupted my pagan world … I am supposed to take it seriously … why? I just don’t hop to other banners to feel good about myself or to engage in discourse …

You can suggest whatever you like; I am not obligated to pay homage. All those things you mentioned belong in the same classification as religion, the supernatural … right with the tooth fairy, voodoo and the flying purple people eater … mysticism. All it takes to believe any of this nonsense is something called FAITH (no proof necessary)  … and I don’t have any use for magic. I just wish I knew how they do it on stage … this is about as close as I want to get on the subject. If you can listen to another 'Big Foot' tail with a straight face ... you are much more a man than I am (hahaha) ... pun intended!

on Dec 28, 2011

Sinperium
Hmm...I have never used a private post here. This technology exists!? Maybe Jafo will enlighten us?

Yes, it exists.  It's personal, ie. one-on-one and is not accessible to a third party.

Click on a person's nick and you'll get a drop-down of options....one of which is 'Personal Message'.

Only rule is....Personal Messages are not for public redistribution as there is no immediate way to check their veracity and thus they can be potentially damaging....

on Dec 28, 2011

Understood.  The secrets of the Illuminati shall remain secret sir.  thanks for the info you commie.

*DISCLAIMER* ... that was humor.

on Dec 28, 2011

Sinperium
thanks for the info you commie.

Odd...at one stage I had an entry in WIKI as 'that fascist bastard admin from Wincustomize'....so 'commie' is a step up....

on Dec 28, 2011

LOL, this discussion is still going?

 

I guess we will all find out soon enough whom is right... 

on Dec 28, 2011


Quoting Sinperium, reply 769 thanks for the info you commie.

Odd...at one stage I had an entry in WIKI as 'that fascist bastard admin from Wincustomize'....so 'commie' is a step up....

Lol. Communism will be the "new chic" soon anyway.

@SivCorp--no one will be unanimously declared "right".  The idea is that the exchange of ideas should always be an option--not dogmatic table thumping and internet quoting with put-downs, insults and blanket dismissals.

"Peace is a dream we have held for a long time now."

on Dec 29, 2011

Atheism is a religion, just like the rest.   Polytheism, monotheism, atheism....    Just like zero is a number.   No, zero is not the absence of numbers; it's a number.  It took mankind 4000 years before the Arabs finally figured that out.  Saying atheism is not a religion is just their way of trying to make themselves "the" religion; just like Christians saying they are the one religion and everyone else is a cult.   Everybody thinks their religion is the only real one.  Welcome to the real world.

The absence of religion is probably agnosticism.   Which would be analogous to 0/0, or NaN (not a number) in science terms.

on Dec 29, 2011

Tetleytea
It took mankind 4000 years before the Arabs finally figured that out.

Actually, the Arabs just brought the zero to Europeans. They found it in India, where it was 'invented' somewhere around 800-900 CE I think.

p.s. There is definitely a forum bug, at least in this thread. The quote block above auto-attributed to Sinperium despite having the correct reply number for Tetleytea's post. 

on Dec 29, 2011

GW Swicord
p.s. There is definitely a forum bug, at least in this thread. The quote block above auto-attributed to Sinperium despite having the correct reply number for Tetleytea's post.

Looks correct here/now...

on Dec 29, 2011

Jafo, GW: ... everything on my screen look ok ... what was meant by "... auto-attributed to Sinperium ..."??? 

on Dec 29, 2011

BoobzTwo
Jafo, GW: ... everything on my screen look ok ... what was meant by "... auto-attributed to Sinperium ..."???

Apparently...for GW the quote he referred to showed 'Sinperium' as the person being quoted....which was wrong...but the comment number was correct.

It'll be a cache issue between Forums/sites....resolves itself given a few minutes.

EG....this quote [above] "should" be BoobzTwo reply 776  - but may not be if immediately viewed from another location....until things catch up with themselves.

on Dec 29, 2011

BoobzTwo
Sinperium, I do not look at religion as a specific problem theologically. And I certainly don't have a bone to pick with you or anyone else for that matter. My specific bone of contention is with the RCC and Co. ... pure and simple. After a while (for me) religion blends into Catholicism as I have been 'chatting' with them for a couple of years. I appologize if there was a confusion ... I guess it happens when you comment on many different threads. I do not mind mincing words on religious topics ... as long as they are not trying to tell me what I have to do or where I came from.  The Bible is actually a fair fiction untill it is taken literally (IMO) ... that is where I fall out. Here is a clip to demonstrate ... something?


 

The bible is not a fiction. It is a book that used to teach people about Faith. But, it is not a history book or science book either. So, I don't understand why people considered it as a science book that explain about the universe creation or other people who consider that Adam and Eve as historical figures.

But, despite it is not a history book, there are a lot of writing about Israel history. Like the King David, Salomon, and Moses. As the Genesis, it is a book of Jew ancient folk lore. What wrong with folk lore? Every civilization have folk lore.

The problem of christian bible is, that it can go into a never ending interpretation. That's because people assume that the words (and the story) in this book as not as it is in. The other problem is, that the christian consider the bible as a holy book, and the only book that used by them to learn and to communicate with God. That's why the bible become a book with 1001 meaning (well, because we have "Killing the kafir / enemy of faith in the old testament and they can't take that words as it is, don't they? or they will become a religious extremist).

In my personal belief, Bible as a book is a good book that teach me a lot of thing. But don't let you wrong. I'm not a christian nor catholic. I studied christian from my school day. I like christian teaching and philosophy; but I never consider Jesus as a God. For me, he is the son of God and rabbi; as what he said or be called in the bible. Well, son can be a lot of thing, even christian consider themselves as the son of God. I believe that I learn a lot of things from bible, just like I learn from other books that I have read in my life. I like what Jesus teaching; and I'm sure that his teaching has influence the western history a lot (even today).

But honestly, I don't like Church. I know one of church in my town. I consider that this church has not the same vision of christian teaching and philosophy that I believe in. They tell people that as long as they believe that Jesus is a God, go to baptism, and pay 10% of their revenue to church, they will get our God's blessing, and go to heaven (Well, I'm not a holy man, but  God as a  businessman? As long as you pay, you can go to heaven and get his blessing? Hmm).

on Dec 29, 2011

... Apparently...for GW the quote he referred to showed 'Sinperium' as the person being quoted....which was wrong...but the comment number was correct.

It'll be a cache issue between Forums/sites....resolves itself given a few minutes.

EG....this quote [above] "should" be BoobzTwo reply 776  - but may not be if immediately viewed from another location....until things catch up with themselves.

Check my edit on the reply in question. I capped Tetleytea to show I'd had to correct the bug. A similar sort of thing seems to have happened way earlier in this thread when Lulapilgrim quoted someone else but my name got tagged by the quote block.

If it's a cache issue, it managed to make it into the 'official record' of a post edit, which makes it bug worth working IMO. Admittedly low priority, but there's something there that exceeds the particle size of things I'm content to see swept under the By Design rug. 

on Dec 29, 2011

It's no different to thinking you've posted an image on the forum only to discover it only shows in your own browser because it's loaded from your clipboard [cache] and not an actual online link that everyone can/will see.

When you have 32 pages of junk thread to load there'll be a delay...meanwhile others already loaded will see different content.

Check the 'recent posts'  section of the Forums and you'll find last posts from people listed that do NOT show when you open the thread....until the system catches up.

It's not a 'bug', it's the result of a complex Forum system.

77 PagesFirst 50 51 52 53 54  Last