Musings about the world around me, the world I create in my mind, and the world I am escaping to in a game.

Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.

But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.

And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.

Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?

It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.

Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?

Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.

I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.


Comments (Page 76)
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on Feb 06, 2012

myfist0
Well I guess it time to unleash the awesome power and knowledge of the Canadian Rock Band

The all knowing, all seeing "Bare Naked Ladies"

Gotta love BNL....Not so sure about the show though...........

http://christwire.org/2011/05/cbs-show-big-bang-theory-sinful-atheist-propaganda/

on Feb 06, 2012

SivCorp
I'll address the individual issues you all bring up in a bit. Probably later tonight
Lots of luck ... but I think you only provide more fodder in these feeble attempts to do exactly what I know not??? Maybe a little more research into the existing (forever now) opposing arguments ... would at least give you some kind of reasonable perspective.

myfist0
myfist0
Sort of puts things into perspective huh ... this is a completely pointless argument, hahaha.

 

on Feb 06, 2012

There is a horrible anti-christian television show on CBS that is known as “The Big Bang Theory”. Just like the supposed scientific theory that it is loosely based on, the show is viomently anti-christian and I strongly urge all Christians to boycott it.
http://christwire.org/2011/05/cbs-show-big-bang-theory-sinful-atheist-propaganda/

 

Hahaha   Best laugh of the month.

Thanks Smooth

on Feb 06, 2012

BoobzTwo
There is some truth in there, but it is not obvious or intended.

There is actually a lot of truths in propaganda like that. They put enough in there to make it look valid then twist things around with innuendo and references from bible lore and then present a totally invalid conclusion, which  in that case is partly "the sure testimony of the Word of God to the true history of the world". Last time I went to the library I am pretty sure the bible wasn't on the shelf amongst the history books.

on Feb 06, 2012

myfist0
Hahaha Best laugh of the month.

Thanks Smooth

Myfist0....I think you are sadly mistaken.....

That could easily be the best laugh of the century....but alas....if that wacko site maintains its holier-than-thou standards there is likely to be even bigger laughs.....

The scary thought is that its actually a scary thought....that nutters as derranged/deluded as them are allowed breath.

Free country for free-range loonies.

Then they get into your political system and America is dead and buried even BEFORE China replaces it as the most economically important/influential country on the planet.

on Feb 06, 2012

myfist0
Thanks Smooth

UR welcome....did you look at some of the other stuff there?....Not as good as "The Onion" but there are a few hidden gems.

on Feb 06, 2012

Smooth....every time I see embedded links in bodies of text I think 'spam'....and my trigger finger gets twitchy....

on Feb 06, 2012

Ha HA ha Really?

 

I love the Big Bang Theory (the TV show).  When one is confident in his beliefs, he can enjoy all forms of entertainment, and not be offended.

 

Those crazy sites are worthless, btw.  I don't even know of most of them. 

 

Edit: well, they are good for a good laugh   Reminds me of the Onion for religion

on Feb 07, 2012

I think the Big Bang's relentless assault on skeptics by portraying them as socially dysfunctional nerds incapable of coping effectively with human feelings is a plot against atheists and their ilk.  Of course, as a degenerate believer who can't think for himself and is a danger to others, I fully support that.

For the record, both my wife and daughter-in-law refer to me as "Sheldon".

on Feb 07, 2012

I am an atheist but I don't mind people with a religion who don't use that to belittle or manipulate others (note I am not referring to your statement in your last post Sinperium ).  But the wonders of the World and the Universe(s) is something that will never be fully known, and I think it's good to keep that sense of wonder while still keeping an open mind and be able to be practical and evidence based.  Like I said in the Quantum teleportation thread, the ability to shift between "what if" and concrete ways of thinking is very useful.

on Feb 07, 2012

Yep--keeping an open mind.

Here's a perspective (Warning: I'm about to paste a scripture verse--it's to serve a point and not meant to proselytize or convert--so chill with the reactionary stuff there please, anyone).

Written around the 8 B.C. and recorded in book of Isaiah...

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple.  Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another:

   “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
   the whole earth is full of his glory.”

  At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.

 “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.”

I can't count how many times I have heard people say, "I don't want anything to do with a heaven where all we do is sit around playing harps and singing about God." I can relate to that--doesn't sound that much fun--especially since the premise is that it will be for "eternity".

But I heard an interesting take years back when someone suggested  that it might not be a bunch of seraphim dutifully reciting a chorus as a hymn in heavenly church.

Instead, this person suggested that it was as the seraphim continually studied God from the vantage they had been given, they constantly were seeing and understanding new things regarding Him and His nature and they were so mind blown at what they saw that they were exclaiming, "Holy!" just as you or I might say "Oh My God!" when confronted by something like a...hmm..double rainbow.

When you talk about concepts of "God" you can limit your view to religion or some anthropomorphized intellectual/philosophical construct or you can look at it from the perspective of, "If such a being exists, what must it be like?".  If anything exists that mirrors the scope of biblical expectations of God, it must be pretty much beyond our ken.

It's essential if you reject the concept of a knowable God in contact with mankind that you fully reject it--or you are left at a point where you have to consider your entire worldview is flawed and not complete.  I think this is why atheists are so adamant on the point.

On the other hand, if such a being does exist, I'd want to know so I keep an open mind.  I also don't want a religious counterfeit or lie either.

If you always go back to, "Inconceivable!" then that isn't proof of anything other than, "I have chosen to believe X is true and refuse to think otherwise".  If someone could show me, I'd want to know and I'm not personally threatened by people trying.  It's not offensive--even when I disagree with them...and I'd change my mind tomorrow if they showed me something I didn't know that merited it--either way.

on Feb 07, 2012

Sinperium
It's essential if you reject the concept of a knowable God in contact with mankind that you fully reject it--or you are left at a point where you have to consider your entire worldview is flawed and not complete. I think this is why atheists are so adamant on the point.
How many times do we (I) have to tell you what atheism means to an atheist ... you can guess till your heart’s content and you can make up or believe the prattle of others who also are not atheists ... but you are still wasting your time.

OMT - ATHEISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD ... BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER BEEN SHOWN TO EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD.

Now with that being said ... what point are we being adamant on??? I reference the highlighted portion. Is there anything in my definition that implies an interest in god or the religions that support him? I am here defending my secular views (and slam the RCC) ... but am forced to deal with these voiceless and uninvolved invisible useless spirits and most assuredly the unheard communication command structure giving the few … dominion over the many.

on Feb 07, 2012

Sinperium
I think this is why atheists are so adamant on the point.

And I can tell you that what you think about others is very wrong. Find the symbols in the scripture.

"Seraphim" The name, a Hebrew masculine plural form, designates a special class of heavenly attendants of Yahweh's court.

"Heaven"  a sacred place or a state of being

What exactly do you think "Heaven on Earth" is?

To me as an atheist it means that the earth should be treated as "sacred" (worthy of respect) and that "heaven" is a sacred state of mind or existence.

I simply don't need to think that God or heaven or angels are something more than symbols to understand these things. When I was very young and only thinking of these things in material terms (because that was how it was taught), it actually hindered me from understanding such things.Too many people take too many things in scripture literally because they do not understand that myth uses material things (as symbols) to describe immaterial things.

Look at for example the Ganges River. It is "sacred" because it provides drinking and irrigation water for those in the society where that religious belief has its roots. Yet it is polluted as "hell" today because some people don't understand why it is "sacred" and/or what that actually means.

Much of religion is broken in society today because some people can't distinguish between what should be taken literally and what shouldn't and how it should be translated and applied. Not to mention "popular" religion which appears to me much the same as political pandering, the only difference being they are pandering for money as opposed to votes.

 

 


 

on Feb 08, 2012

@Boobz

It was a general statement--not directed at "you" (there's that confusion again).  You're not telling me anything.  You're saying a lot but it isn't really of any use.  Put up another prominent atheist video--then maybe I'll understand.  I'm slow ya know.

@Smoothseas

Did you read the disclaimer--I'm using it to make the point how much a change of thinking we would need to really try to wrap our heads around the concept of an actual "God".  You respond with an exegesis, biblical text commentary and word definitions.

You missed the point.

on Feb 08, 2012

Sinperium
You missed the point.

The point is that many people don't even know what they are reading so you won't figure it out because you put in within the realm of some fairyland instead of the immaterial thing that it is.

Sinperium
You respond with an exegesis, biblical text commentary and word definitions.

You were the one who presented the biblical text. I simply pointed out that what it represents cannot be found if you paint the picture in material terms as you did,  as opposed to understanding the immaterial meaning it is trying to convey. A question of whether "God is ones consciousness" or not is really where the thin line between theism and atheism lies and not within some fairytale including heaven and angels.

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