He WAS the temple. He rebuilt it in 3 days when he rose from the dead. What the jewish people thought would be the messiah was not based on the scriptures. They had a misconception of who the messiah would be. Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies about the messiah.

Jesus was a man, not a temple. The Temple still stood in Jerusalem when Jesus died.

Of course it is. It's the "Jesus was the temple" thing that is not based on scriptures.

Jews had a misconception about their own Messiah?

I think not.

You can have your Messiah, I will wait for mine. Thank you very much. You want a Messiah who "is" a temple, hence you are satisfied now. I want a Messiah who will rebuild the Temple. I will wait for him.

LEAUKI POSTS:

lEAUKI, this is true only if you are referring to Christianity, specifically Catholicism becasue the Church is the only Church established by Christ.   

Jesus Christ revealed Christianity which amounts to Biblical Judaism full blossomed. Biblical Judaism was essentially a prepatory religion meant of its very nature to merge into its perfect fulfillment when the Messias came. Christ was that Messias and Incarnate God. Christ gave us the holy religion, now known as Catholicism, in which the Jewish religion foreshadowed. Christ declared that His religion was not a preparation for a further and more perfect revelation, but that it would last just as He had given it until the end of the world.

Christ said, "I have come not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it." Biblical Judaism fulfilled by Christ has lasted in the Catholic Chruch which alone has existed all days since His time and which alone gives signs of perpetuity.

LULA POSTS:

LEAUKI POSTS:

That's nice. There may well be men who identify their family tree as Levites, but none of them have ever been Priests or could ever be as it's impossible to fulfill the priestly duties in divine worship as commanded by ALmighty God. The Mosaic Church of the chilren of Isreal set forth in the Torah, ended its Divine mission in the first century of the Christian era when it ceased to have a priesthood; which was followed by the destruction of the temple with the single Altar, the only Altar permitted according to the Mosaic Law.

With the ending of the existence of an Aaronic priesthood, there came an end to the sacrifices called for in the book of Leviticus. This is when the MOsaic Chruch or biblical Judaism as recorded in the Old Testament became a thing of historic past.

In modern Judaism and Jews today, for, as you say, these "Levites who are alive and well, thank you very much", there is no Temple, there is no Holy of Holies, there is no Altar, and no sacrifices. There is no priesthood, no priests, no competant authorities who have a Divine commission, who are consecrated to exercise levitical requirements. And this is not accidental, it's providential as the New Covenant predicted by Jeremias came into being in the first Christian century which the Messias instituted Catholic Chruch evidences. Jer. 31:31; Hebrews 8:1-10.

The Aaronic priesthood with its Levitical ministry was fulfilled and evidenced in the instutituion by Jesus Christ of a more perfect, Sacrifice, an "unbloody oblation" later called the Holy Mass, in place of the bloody Mosaic sacrifices. Malachais 1:11; St.Luke 22:19-20. This sacrifice was to be offered on altars all over the world "from the rising of the sun, unto the going down thereof" instead of a single altar in a central place as called for in the Old Testament Deut. 12, Esdras 17 and Malachais.

Waiting for the Messias to come and rebuild the Temple and reinstitute an Aaronic priesthood is waiting for the impossible. (If and it's a big IF, it happens, watch out and flee as far away from this as possible becasue it won't be by God.)

OVERSEER POSTS:

Thank you for telling the truth...and as you know there were many in Christ's day who saw Him perform miracles and signs and still didn't understand or bellieve that He was God Incarnate.

LEAUKI POSTS:

It is based upon Scripture but ones you are not likely to be familiar with...St.John 2 and St. Mark 26

Here's the Douay Rheims version:

St.John 2.....13 And the pasch of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple them that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting. 15 And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.

16 And to them that sold doves he said: Take these things hence, and make not the house of my Father a house of traffic. 17 And his disciples remembered, that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up. 18 The Jews, therefore, answered, and said to him: What sign dost thou shew unto us, seeing thou dost these things? 19 Jesus answered, and said to them: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 The Jews then said: Six and forty years was this temple in building; and wilt thou raise it up in three days?

21 But he spoke of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen again from the dead, his disciples remembered, that he had said this, and they believed the scripture, and the word that Jesus had said. 23 Now when he was at Jerusalem, at the pasch, upon the festival day, many believed in his name, seeing his signs which he did. 24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, 25 And because he needed not that any should give testimony of man: for he knew what was in man.

And St.Mark.....

53 And they brought Jesus to the high priest; and all the priests and the scribes and the ancients assembled together. 54 And Peter followed him from afar off, even into the court of the high priest; and he sat with the servants at the fire, and warmed himself. 55 And the chief priests and all the council sought for evidence against Jesus, that they might put him to death, and found none.

56 For many bore false witness against him, and their evidences were not agreeing. 57 And some rising up, bore false witness against him, saying: 58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another not made with hands. 59 And their witness did not agree. 60 And the high priest rising up in the midst, asked Jesus, saying: Answerest thou nothing to the things that are laid to thy charge by these men?

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said to him: Art thou the Christ the Son of the blessed God? 62 And Jesus said to him: I am. And you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming with the clouds of heaven. 63 Then the high priest rending his garments, saith: What need we any further witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy. What think you? Who all condemned him to be guilty of death. 65 And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him: Prophesy: and the servants struck him with the palms of their hands.

These passages tell us of the Temple of Jerusalem which had replaced the previous sanctuary which the Isrealites carried around in the wilderness, was the place selected by God during the Old Covenant to express His presence to the people in a special way.

Christ's words and actions as He expels the traders from the temple clearly show that He is the Messias foretold by the prophets. That's exactly why some Jews approach Him and ask Him to give a sign of His power. Jesus' reply in v. 20 remains obscure until His Resurrection from the dead. The Jewish authorities try to turn into an attack on the Temple which merits the death penalty. Later they will taunt Him with it when He is suffering on the Cross and later still in their case against Stephen before the Sanhedrin.

There was nothing derogatory in what Jesus said, contrary to what false witnesses made out. The miracle He offers them which He calls "the Sign of Jonah", will be His own resurrection on the 3rd day. Jesus is using a metaphor, as if to say, "Do you see me...this temple? Well, imagine it will be destroyed would it not be a miracle to rebuild it in 3 days? That is what I will do for you as a sign. For you will destroy My body which is the true temple, and I will rise again on the 3rd day."

No one understand at the time what He was saying, Jews and disciples alike thought He was speaking about rebuilding the temple which Herod had begun to construct in 19-20BC. Later on, the disciples grasped what He was saying and understood what He really meant.  

God does not exist.

Just a quick question. I didn't read all this thread, so please excuse me if someone's already talked about this, but I was just wondering the answer would be of the people posting here.

Question: You say that you can't prove that God exists because if there was nothing when God created everything then there wouldn't have been God. If this is so then how come you can say that science says that there was a primordial goop that the universe exploded from today and that this is fact yet you can't prove where that came from either? Either way we're stuck with the same unanswerable question, it's just how people choose to answer it. I'm just wondering how anyone can discredit one side or the other, since it's the same question, and why they can't coexist.

I hope i'm not treading on anyone's religious toes but the biggest diference between religion and science is that religion keeps with the one view whereas science uses the phrase "if it works it's obsolete" and constantly tries to overrule itself. Put the beggining of the universe. fundamental Christians would say that God created the universe. Yet with science, most scientific evidence points towards the big bang and yet other scientific theorys would say that the universe has always been there.

ΑΩΑ - the beggining, the end, the beggining

You make it sound like religions don't ever disagree.  LoL,  what a silly notion.  There is so many different religions(all lies ofcourse)  and they all bicker back and forth to each other about who is right.  I don't care really.  It mught as well be the spaghetti monster for all I care it is all based on a lie designed origianlly to control people.  At least science is a self correcting process,  it tests to see if it is wrong and if so has no trouble accepting the mistake and moving on to attain the REAL truth.

You've blown a very big hole in my argument there! lol! And I would have to say your right. Religions do disagree as does science. Making them both the same thing in a sense, I guess that religion is like a stubbornly outmoded science. The same way that the ancient greeks used to believe everything was made out of fire, water, air etc, is an outmoded version of physics. My own personal view by the way.

AΩA - the beginning, the end, the beginning

I am referring to Zoroastrianism and any number of revealed religions.

Again, there is no such ending.

You are free to believe whatever you want, but none of your beliefs have anything to do with Judaism. You don't get to define our beliefs; we do.

I have no problems with believing in the impossible.

Jews have often faces the impossible. Ben Gurion said that in Israel, to be a realist, you have to believe in miracles.

You and I know that it is impossible for the Messiah to come and rebuild the Temple. But I believe that he will come anyway.

I am familiar with them but fail to see how they are relevant.

I do not deny that Christians believe all this stuff about Jesus.

They do and they don't. While, for example, Judaism and Hinduism are different worldviews, they don't exactly disagree since both are for different peoples. Who knows if G-d wants Indians to believe in elephant gods?

I've explained time and again how biblical Judaism and Christianity was revealed by God.

 Would you please explain how Zoroastrianism is revealed by God?

Reading religious threads is like watching Trekkies argue. In Klingon.

And in saying so you are making an intellectual mistake but thank ALmighty God that making mistakes doesn't necessarily mean an evil disposition! 

As to your first comment....No, we are not free to believe anything we want to believe when it comes to God's laws and His holy religion. When God revealed His law that revelation took away my liberty to do what that law forbids and the same with when He revealed a definite religion, He took away my freedom to belong to any religion I might wish. A person can be free from God and a servant of Satan or be free of Satan and a servant of God. We choose which liberty we will have.

As to the second...this is silly. My comments regarding Judaism stand. I note you haven't refuted anything I've said with any substance. We disagree on Judaism....Remember truth is neither yours nor mine, it is independent of us. We hold things because they are true. They are not true becasue we happen to believe them. Truth is consistent. If you have the truth on this subject and my ideas conflict with yours, then I don't possess the truth.  And if I'm right, you haven't got the truth.

*sighs* First i would like to say...Thank you Protocept00 for giving us something to argue about, its what the Human race does best...Second: how the hell do you come up with this shit?!? do you sit around thinking "hmmm i wonder what i can come up with that will keep the guys on the forum busy fighting over stuff that we were NEVER SUPPOSED TO FIGURE OUT ANYWAYS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO!!!" have you ever thoguht of that my friend? have you ever thought that we were never supposed to figure out this stuff? We dont know if there is a God...and we dont know that there isn't a God...if you can give me GOOD SOLID PROOF that there isnt a God...i will concede that you are a philisophical genius. i mean really dude...just if your wondering...im not mad or anything...just trying to get my point across, just like you are i suppose...and your question if there is a connection between science or God...i dont think that there is a connection between the two...

And regarding what Lulapilgrim said...dude...shut up...dont try and be all high and mighty...people have a choice to have religious freedom...its their choice let them decide what to do. you just need to live your life and let other people live theirs...