Religion is a smart man’s admission that he cannot know everything.

Religious fundamentalism is a stupid man’s admission that he thinks he knows enough.

-- Moshe Wilkinson

The love the unborn child too, not only the would-be mother.

I don't understand the gay thing either. But the abortion stance makes complete sense to me. (The birth control stance is another animal still.)

Only very few religions claim that they are the only true religion.

Christians who are anti-abortion for Biblical reasons are just proving they haven't thoroughly studied the Bible.  The fetus, Biblically, is not a living soul, because it has not taken the breath of life for the soul to enter into its body.  (Genesis 2:7, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.")  Both the Greek and the Hebrew word for spirit, also means air, or wind.  Instead of going back to the origins and figuring out when the spirit enters the body, they chant that that passage in Jeremiah about "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" -- that just means God is omniscient and knows everything that's going to happen before it does -- so if the prophet's mother would have chosen abortion, then God would have known before He formed the prophet in the womb that he was destined to not make it to full gestation.

I'm making this point simply for the sake of debate, because I've personally come to the conclusion for myself, that there is no god, and the Bible is just an amalgam of ancient writings that were put together and then culled to fit a certain groups political goals, until we have what we know today as the Bible, and most people think its all one book and that it's been in its current form since "God wrote it," which is a lot of misinformation.

I went to a famous institute of technology and graduated with a degree in physics, with minors in the philosophy of science and physiological psychology. After graduation a personal experience convinced me that there was a lot more to the universe than was covered in the physics books. Thus while convinced myself I am still vaguely interested in discussions like this one.

Over the course of my career I have had the opportunity to hear the beliefs of others in science. It is safe to say that most have a metaphysics of some sort, divine or not. The great discussion goes on and how much any of us can say other than we think one thing or the other, I do not know.

Google "god and quantum interface" and you will find much of interest. As for God being a 'force of nature' I think not. Rather God is the source of nature. Religious people are often disappointing and religions often seem like poor ways to spend anyone's time. I myself avoid all who are doctrinaire about the subject. It is the great discussion and should remain so.

You are absolutely right about the technical details. In fact your explanation is brilliant.

However, you forget that there is value in potential life. In Judaism abortion, except to save the life of the mother, is prohibited; not because a fetus is human life, but because a fetus is _potential_ human life and as such more important than the whims of the parents (but not more than the life of the mother).

I didn't make a technical argument for the Christian position. I just explained that they love the fetus just as they love all human life. Whether or not the fetus is "alive" doesn't come into this (although for Christians it does). The point is that the subject was about why Christian oppose abortion due to their love for life. And that's it: they love potential human life just like they love all human life. It's like people who like food and therefor decide that the process of cooking must not be stopped.

You can disagree with their position, but it is a sound position. There is no way to disprove it based on their own principles. It's sound. If you like food, you have to believe that cooking is important. And even though I personally rather eat than cook, more responsible people will argue that both acts are equally important.

Incidentally, you are making a mistake with the translation of the words. I don't know Greek, but I know Hebrew. "Ruach" does indeed translate to "spirit" as well as "wind" and lots of other words. But it does not "mean" those things. Ruach means ruach, a concept that the English language simply doesn't have a word for, a concept that can only be represented by lots of words in English. ("Davka" is another such word.)

right, those scriptures written by man. where woman are chattel, and the adulteress is stoned but the adulterer is not.

I didn't know that an abortion was considered a "whim" thing, thanks for the clarification.

Yes, what he said...

People will always fear the unknown. There is no way you can convince a religious person to stop believing in their religion even though religion  and its laws has also caused pain and suffering for millions of people around the world since its inception. They simply cannot take the chance and fear that god will brand them as defilers and send them to hell.

I think as a species we should confront all our fears and rise above them. We should ask the questions that nobody else will ask and not be turned down by a simple word such as "faith." It is our duty to explore and discover all there is to know about the universe. 

That is nonsense. The Torah prescribes stoning as a punishment equally to both parties (and for several crimes that have nothing to do with gender). You are basing your opinions on some sort of popular knowledge about religion that became prominent among the non-religious.

The Torah (Jewish law) does not treat women as chattel either. Quite in contrast to the west, where women could not legally own property under certain circumstances (for example when they were married), Mosaic law already declared that women can own property over 3000 years ago. The popularly known "fact" that the Bible declares women to slaves or property is simply false.

Finally, Jewish law has very stringent requirements for conviction if the penalty is death. The accused does not only have to have been proven guilty but he must also insist himself (or herself) that he would do the deed again and doesn't see it as wrong. No difference is made between women and men as accused, although in times past only men could be judges.

Perhaps you are confusing the Bible with the Quran.

It wasn't in the past. It is now, unfortunately.

Women are told that abortion is a small matter, something that can be done too lightly. That's not a good development, I think.

Apparently religious texts are excluded in that principle.

Which is why they will forever be noobs. 

I am curious. Have you guys actually ever heard of a case where someone was stoned by a Jewish or Christian court (outside the Life of Brian, I mean)?

I think the Bible itself mentions maybe three or four cases. But beyond that, what makes the event so ever-present that you would claim it is a part of the religions?

ROFLMAO!  Spoken like either a man who will never be faced with the choice, or someone who has never personally faced an unwanted pregnancy!  There is a vast cavern between being "told" something is a small matter, and shelling out a few hundred dollars, then having your feet up in stirrups while you're junk gets scraped out or spending 2 days with cramps from hell if you choose the chemical route.

This choice a woman has to make is NEVER a small matter -- not even when it's just a false alarm!

Bring a class of second graders to a mid-term abortion and then ask them afterwards what the "junk" was that was scraped out.  Funny how they would understand it with no problem.

Sorry, I really don't mean to be offensive and I think women should be able to make these decisions...but call it what it is and don't cover it over with political rhetoric to make it sound like something else.

Abortion ain't something to joke about. Its messy and gets really bloody. Their water breaks and they go into labor for the next  hours. Its messed up. Esp for those who do it after 1-2 months after getting pregnant. A woman who agrees to abort their child after this point has no business in pretending it was the right thing to do. .

I've seen girls who get pregnant only to chicken out because of peer pressure and parents making a big deal out of it. If your going to get pregnant and you know your risking it just stomach what you about to do and take the pills within 3 weeks. This matter is not about religion -its about science, ethics and logic.

Having an abortion is self injury and denying potential life. If religion wants to twist and turn this to their advantage then i can see why. Doesn't take a holy person to understand this philosophy nor was this even written in the first religious books because its a modern era issue. The rule against abortion in religion was written by mortal men who claim they know better and gods backing them up. The problem is its an intimate issue and some couples love the guy finishing inside the girl  . Their not guilty for doing so because some couples wait for the time when the girl wont get pregnant only to find out she is  so the abortion problem will always pop up for generations to come. 

Abusing abortion pills also damages and poisons the woman's body and their ability to have healthy children or have children at all. 

At this point religion is just copying science and its reasons not to abort babies and rewriting it. 

By the term "junk" I was not referring to the products of conception -- I was referring to genitals.